When the engagement really happens and it is very fluid you are going to point shoot. There is no substitute for experience. I like all of them. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. Most rounds fired do not hit anyone at all. Copyright 2023 Police1. Mine is easily concealable, accurate and has never failed to function. The expansive quality of these rounds creates larger permanent cavities. I carried an issue 45. Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. Open carry is fine where Im at. But, this little word but often comes up in real life. I like them all! And let us not forget the adrenaline factor. It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. Any other manufacturers that have been notified that they are not going to be selected may be waiting for the DoD to make the official announcement. Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. Having had lots of time with all 3 (9mm, 40 s&w and 45acp) yes the 9 is easier to fire and carries more ammo but in my experience you need that extra ammo to stop the threat. You can not tell me this otherwise because, I know this for a fact. But you have not reached the mark to replace that recoil spring. The 45 deer had busted bones and bullets still within them. But the US never officially ratified these protocols, and is not officially bound by them. Im 73 yoa. I have small hands for a guy but I have no problems with accuracy. I have several. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. If you use .22 mag, muzzle flash is pronounced and may have some fear factor with its use. So, is the 9mm the ultimate handgun around? Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. You could smell the gunpowder. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. There were no exit wounds. If you shoot someone through the skull with a .22 rimfire and penetrate their brain, you will almost certainly immediately incapacitate them. I like a simple .45 +P with a lot of lead. Any round can accomplish that, even the much-maligned .22. In combat the one thing that does count is having more capacity, whether you miss or have more threats to neutralize, more capacity is a good thing no matter how you look at it. I daily now carry a 9 mm. I don't know about you, but my .45's seem to be plenty accurate, certainly as precise as any of my 9mm pistols. Head on over to the Concealed Carry Podcast for great audio content. Maybe if you were trying to make 100+ yard shot thatd make a little difference. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy of the human body Wellcome L0024128.jpg 1,100 1,796; 960 KB. The saga will never end. He was a deputy sheriff. He sure has screwed us military retires over the last several years! 2. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. Thanks for reading and applying some little used common sense to the debate. After receiving this wound, Platt initiated a devastating attack upon the surrounding FBI agents, killing two (including Agent Dove) and severely wounding two more. His chest was gurgling and slurping. Handgun and Patrol Rifle Instructor, a graduate of Trident Concepts Concealed Carry Instructor course, and a Modern Samurai Project Endorsed Instructor. What I have found, is its a matter of preference. This article will define what the question which handgun round has the best stopping power? means, and offer unbiased information that will help the readers to make up their own minds on the subject. The bear was shot in the head through the screen.it was a one shot stop but needed another round to finish him off. As Sir Isaac Newton pointed out a few centuries ago, for every action theres an equal reaction in the opposite direction. We traded all the 9s some years ago for the 40 which give knockdown power plus multiple rounds. The money has to come from somewhere. But to suggest they made the change due to the reasons quoted aboveparticularly because the 9mm supposedly has greater penetration due to less air resistanceis complete hogwash! Ive been training for 50+ years and continue to do so. 9mm will not drop a target unless you hit the CNS.a buddy of mine took a 9mm straight through the head through his eyeball from about 20 yards away. It can also destroy your aim, and the strongest bullet on earth is useless if it doesnt hit the bad guy coming at you. When I left LE I traided for a S&W 39-2 9mm. 9mm. Two shots were within an inch of his heart. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. With the way things are going today I decided it was time to carry again. for every day carry. What it really boils down to is budget, not protection. Dan, your and many others comments ring true. Hollow point bullets are superior to round-nosed ones. I find that there is a difference when using 9mm vs .45acp. Youll immediately learn the, Why didnt I squeeze the trigger when I had the shot? The past 45 years never needed more than one shot. If a projectile has features that would cause it to expand upon impact, U.S. Army engineers Donald Carlucci and Sidney Jacobson explained in the textbook, Ballistics: Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition. Thats my two cents for what its worth. For me the argument is how the pistol or revolver feels in my hand and how accurately can shoot it. Id use either! Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. This accurately stuff doesnt make too much sense when you have a bonsai charge advancing on you and your rifle was not available. The FBI cant make up its mind and bounces back and forth. If you dont have an excellent chance against a large carnivore with it. NATO settled for the 9mm as a general service handgun cartridge after the war in part based on the testimony of a whole bunch of old SS guys whod served on the Russian Front. Battlestar Galactica. The Human Torso Test. I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. I think that the argument here has gone the wrong direction. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! So youre that guy safe at home on the computer. Out charges the male mental with a screw driver in his hand. It seems to me to be better than the 9mm or the 45 acp Since the mid-2000s, gunmakers catering to consumers who increasingly buy weapons for self-defense have produced fewer of the small-caliber handguns like the .25 or .32, and more of those 9mm and larger. Anyone using the term bullets to discuss weapon capacity knows little about firearms and has no business writing policy.on them. The officer fired three round from his 9mm Baretta 92F. G27 with the 10 for EDC and G22 with 22 count mag for inside the house, 40 doesnt seem to have that much more pop than 9mm to me, and i have relatively small hands. And I suspect it could very well be the Sig P320 as it is the epitome of modular.. But for those of us that like to aim and make good hits Ill take the 45 as a primary with a compact 9 as a backup. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. A true warriors gun. PS: I forgot to mention that as a SAW gunner I was allowed to carry an old .45 (Springfield Armory). However, caliber is at least as important and should not be ignored when choosing a weapon. We look forward to serving you. They argue that the 9mm round has more penetrating power because the round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air. What kind of insane non-scientific reasoning is this? Guns dont kill people. Though the patient survived and only had a small wound, he suffered extensive contusions throughout his lungs. He didnt get more than three feet from the bathroom. Also my pattern emptying a clip rapidly against someone with a 9mm, Ill win that as well all day everyday! This is what can incapacitate a target, even with a poorly placed torso shot. If the Government is involved in any way, money will change hands. Shot placement vs. What do you Think of the S&W Shield? As blood moves through the body, it picks up extra fluid, chemicals and waste. It was by far the easiest serviced pistol in the field, go ahead and get the lighter frame lighter weight ceramic /plastic and all that junk its fine as long as youre in a urban environment. 25 yard 1.52 off hand 5 rnd groups on the nose. There have been several attempts by ballistics engineers to increase the wounding ability of a round. Been hunting 49 years. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? So In a effort to accommodate all soldiers they switched to a milder recoiling 9mm round. I am older now, living in the city. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. It makes a bigger hole. Between 14 and 45 , flak jacket and 5 mag 20 7.76 stayed in shape. I can shoot consistently accurately. Sudden, immediate and even instant death. It doesnt get more damaging that that. Remember, people dont have health bars. One single shot from nea You know, Indians killed each other, white settlers, and hunted with a bow &. Greater tissue displacement is likely to lead to more blood loss. Most self-defense shootings take place inside 20 feet and are over in seconds; if Im out in public and shooting beyond that distance, itll probably be tough to sell as self-defense to a judge and/or jury anyway. A bullet entering an enemys body does damage in two ways. That will put anything down.But if it comes time to kill a man should there be any fun in it. It was a contact shot into the center chest on a sleeping target. Plus, this decision saves the military a substantial amount of money as Glocks are cheap, and the 9mm ammo is also very affordable and, perhaps more importantly, readily available. Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. I have used the 1911 govt. Among other things, this makes it ineffective against body armor. 158 gr 0.38" Special P and 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullets will penetrate both sides of a human skull. True, Or not? I seen it first hand as well. In fact, the .223 projectile, a common round for the AR-15, is not much larger than many .22 rounds like the Hornet, typically used for youth shooting sports, target shooting, and hunting varmints. I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. Tearing and rupturing is common in tissue surrounding the wound channel. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. You have bo clue what youre talking about other than maybe your steel target fell over a little easier with a heavier bullet at the range. So dont ask. Most people get creatine through seafood and red meat though at levels far below those found in synthetically made creatine supplements. The earlier FBI testing left no doubt that tissue displacement was greater with the larger rounds. Desert Eagle Ammo Type: .45 ACP. Pretty broad pattern where adrenaline can also make hands shake. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase